felixdk
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 2,520
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #61 |
I couldn't leave the question of the size of the Bedford alone, so I did a little more playing around with the sketch. I like to use visuals to compare size rather than numbers so I drew some baselines on the contact patches of the tires on the a/c and truck, dropped some verticals and compared the ratios of the measurements using the 10' height of the Bedford cab, which everything that I found agreed on. This is what I ended up with.
 We're looking at them from probably 150 yards or so and 200 feet of altitude, so I'm not worrying too much about perspective convergence on these lines. Line number 1 has hash marks at ground level, 6 feet (the bottom of the gun ranging radar housing) and 14 feet (tip of the vertical stabilizer). Line 2 has marks at ground level and 10 feet (top of the cab). As you can see in the orange box, the measurements scale out pretty well, with the 10 foot cab showing up about where it should. Line 2b shows where the top of the cab would be in relation to the canopy of the Sabre.
Something was still nagging at me, though and then I measured the width of the Bedford and found that it was almost the same as the height at just under 10 feet. Even though it looked OK to me from checking photos, it had to be too wide, since the places I checked on the web agreed at about 7.5 feet. I looked at Neil's APM plot and, sure enough, it had to be way narrower. In PS, I scaled the Bedford sketch's width to 7.5 feet (75%). This is what I got:
No way! It looks like a cartoon. I had found one site on the web that showed the width of the QL as 8.3 feet, so I started looking for a photo of the QL taken from dead ahead, so that I could do some measuring of the proportions. I finally found one that was almost dead on and I dropped verticals and did some measuring. If you open this photo in PS at a 93.2% zoom factor, the height of the cab is 100mm measuring with my steel rule on the LCD screen. That translates to 10 feet to give a measurement to compare everything else too.
This looks bizarre, but it checks out. The height is 10 feet, the width measures out at 8.7 feet and the top of the radiator shroud is 7 feet high at its front. The cab is 6.5 feet wide at the back tapering to 6 feet wide at the windscreen. I measured the driver's head at about 7.5 mm high, which translates to a height of 6 feet if you use the 8 heads high method of drawing a human figure. So it seems that the 7'5'' width listed for the QL's cab is wrong, at least according to what I see on this example of the Bedford.
The extra width may have been causing the refueler to look too big for the Sabre, so I'm going to adjust the width of the sketch to a bit over 8.5 feet and see how that looks.
__________________
Don
"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!."
 |
| Loading... | | |
NeilF92
Crewdog
Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 1,712
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #62 |
Getting there Don - I notice looking at your comparison sketch above that the perspective on the tanker booms seems to be going the wrong way i.e opening out slightly to the rear rather than converging ? Could be my eyesight though!
I guess your next version will sort all the issues .
Interesting little exercise !
__________________
 |
| Loading... | | |
Smitty
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 1,575
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #63 |
Hey Don the driver is on the wrong.........opps! 
__________________
"Never jump out of a perfectly good airplane!" |
| Loading... | | |
felixdk
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 2,520
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #64 |
Hi Neil,
A combination of yard work and staring at pictures of Bedford QLs has left me temporarily behind the curve, so go ahead and make circles and arrows and paragraphs on the back of my sketch to show me what you're noticing. I think I may see what you mean, but I'm not sure.
Here's the 87% Bedford, so to speak and I think that makes it look a bit smaller in relation to the Sabre.
__________________
Don
"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!."
|
| Loading... | | |
Chas
Crewdog
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 407
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #65 |
I spent a few minutes trying to pick holes in it using Coral Draw and having separated the image into two. I overlaid the original after I had finished and declare that it is spot on using my very simplistic technique. The 'tank' is drawn on parallel lines whereas the wheelbase has a slight recession to it. This may be causing the optical illusion that is being discussed, although the ammounts we are talking about are very small. I think you have it nailed Don for we are definately talking about much less then the spillage of a paintbrush.
PS
Since posting I reread this part of the thread, and IMHO the pain was worth it, for it now looks right when compared to where you have come from.
__________________
http://www.artistic.flyer.co.uk
G L  B A L__A V I A T I O N__A R T |
| Loading... | | |
NeilF92
Crewdog
Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 1,712
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #66 |
Thanks Don - I've projected the lines that bothered me and I agree with Chas that they are parallel rather than divergent - my brain (sic) tells me there should be some sign of convergence even in this small image but I could be wrong.
__________________
|
| Loading... | | |
felixdk
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 2,520
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #67 |
Quote: Originally Posted by Chas
IMHO the pain was worth it, for it now looks right when compared to where you have come from.
You're right Chas. It's not a huge change, but why not get it as right as you can? (Thanks to Paul C. also, by the way) Now I've got a tiny Bedford QL refueler model to build too . Might as well throw in a 1/72 scale Sabre while I'm at it.
Neil,
It looks like the 2 inner lines converge, but the 2 outer hardly do at all. It's amazing what your brain picks up even at such a small scale. Should be easy to fix 
__________________
Don
"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!."
|
| Loading... | | |
PaulC
Crewdog
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 427
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #68 |
Don
Glad to be off help if thats what it was, I do seem to have opened a can of worms here but it will I'm sure be worth it in the end. It would make a very nice little painting all on its own with lots of ground crew running about.
Looking forward to the main event
Cheers
PaulC |
| Loading... | | |
Chas
Crewdog
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 407
| |
felixdk
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 2,520
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #70 |
Thanks, Chas. That 's one of the only decent sources that I could find too and it looks to be a beautiful kit. I goes for just under $100 bucks over here, but boy would that look nice next to a 1/48th scale Sabre F.4.
__________________
Don
"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!."
|
| Loading... | | |
PeteWenman
Moderator
Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 899
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #71 |
Gents hi
This is a great thread. I love the attention to detail and the problem solving going on here.
Don how about using APM to draw a box for the Bedford based on your height and width figures (fudge the length). This should then sort out the divergence issue and enable you to estable the vanishing points for the truck.
Can't wait for you to start slapping paint down.
P
__________________
 |
| Loading... | | |
felixdk
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 2,520
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #72 |
Hi Pete, glad you're back. If I had any sense, I would have APM'd the Bedford at the start  , but I played with it a bit more and have it under control now and anyway the research process was thoroughly enjoyable.
I also worked on a perspective problem with the signal square, the size of the generic sedan by the watch office (maybe a Ford Prefect or some kind of Austin?) and a couple of other small issues. I had the sketch printed out full size today and will transfer it to the board this weekend. Paint will follow immediately.
__________________
Don
"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!."
|
| Loading... | | |
Chas
Crewdog
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 407
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #73 |
Dear, dear:
This is England old boy. We do not drink in our saloons; we drive them! ..and the only sedan that I am aware of is my old maths teacher, and she was a dragon lady. If I had known then what I know now, I would have named her U2!
>Removes tonque from cheek<
You cant put it off any longer Don, sharpen those brushes and hit the road. You have impatient spectators cheering you on.
__________________
http://www.artistic.flyer.co.uk
G L B A L__A V I A T I O N__A R T |
| Loading... | | |
felixdk
Moderator
Registered: 10/21/06
Posts: 2,520
|
|
| |
Reply with quote | #74 |
I finally have some consecutive days off, so tomorrow the real work begins.
I should have remembered that it wasn't a "sedan"; I did get to see saloon car racing at Silverstone back in the day. Bunch of Jaguars unsuccessfully chasing I think David Hobbs in a Ford Falcon around. I was rooting for the Minis .
__________________
Don
"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!."
|
| Loading... | | |
